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You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.

You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free". 



I could never burn a flag; I'm one of those that get angry when it's displayed at night without a light on it.  Or when people write on it.  I get (irrationally) upset when movies or tv shows put it on the ground for, well, aliens taking over.  I hate taking plastic flags at rallys or anywhere because I can't stand to throw them away or let them touch the ground.

I'm a little weird, but I'd spend a lifetime opposing  a flag-burning amendment,  damn it.  People can burn the flag if they want.  

And people can believe what they want and they can say what they want; but the response is more speech, regardless of how long it takes.


Governor Moonbeam!  Way to go, California!   And democrats won the top spots.  Nicely done.   And not applauding (even booing) Schwarzenegger when he gets on the dais.  Hahahahahaha.  Oh, San Francisco, I heart you.  Don't stop believing!!!  I need to move back to California.  I loved that they used the cable cars.  Wow, they really hate him there.  Bow ties are cool!

Care to adopt my little county?  We're a sea (pond?) of blue surrounded by crazy red people.

I think my Congressperson is going to pull it out; she's still in the lead and the only outstanding votes are from Pima County which is decidedly democratic.  We're also waiting on medical marijuana.

The number of propositions that passed is stunning.  If it was hateful or racist in anyway, it passed.  The voters did stand up for the environment (both keeping prohibitions against hunting/fishing and the legis wanting to sell state land w/o restrictions) and kids (although I swear that's only because they said the voters created something the legislature wanted to take away; hell no that won't happen).  Silver lining: the state house and senate will so overreach on redistricting that the courts will slap them down and, once again, it will take years, like it always does.  What a blessing that this state has always been so racist that they're covered under the Voting Rights Act because of systematic suppression of minority voters.  

It's the economy, stupid.  People get scared, they get sucked in by the crazy.  Some people down here actually want a three-layer fence.  I have no idea what they think the three layers are actually going to do.  What, are people going to get through the first two and just be stymied by the third?  Are drug traffickers going to give up billions of dollars because, oh no, there are three layers.  It's just stupid.  And who's going to pay for it?  "Oh, it'll get paid for." By what or who?  Are you good to pay more in taxes? "No! but it'll get paid for."  These people are idiots.

Heaven help us these next two years.  And then, hopefully, we'll help ourselves in 2012 because this is not sustainable.

Comments

( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
tuckp3
Nov. 3rd, 2010 10:26 pm (UTC)
border patrol is such an interesting concept. i mean it shouldn't just be permeable, but dude a three layer fence is like a three layer cake, it's a little daunting at first, but it's three fucking layers of cake. so yeah, i'm gonna get through it. ALSO those fences end somewhere and basically, i can just walk around. so fuck you.

i'm ashamed to admit it, but i didn't vote. I DID vote in the primaries, which SO FEW people do, so i had some say in what was being vote on. but i usually, read through the what's on california's ballot tome the couple of days before and then go vote. life's been happening and it didn't occur to me that i would need to do an absentee ballot and then it was fucking election day and the politicos were blowing up my cell. le sigh.
echo_fish
Nov. 4th, 2010 03:56 am (UTC)
border patrol is an interesting concept. the border is so long, people are going to get through, it's just going to happen. And usually, it's not a problem-- people come over, braving the heat and the desert, and, they survive, they go to work, make some money, then maybe/maybe not go back. It's fine; they work and help our economy. I've been moved to be supportive of a guestworker program so we can make it legal and safer for everyone (it gets the coyotes off their backs and the workers can make money and pay some taxes to offset medical/hospital costs). It just sounds too reasonable for some people.

the three-layer fence is absolutely ridiculous. Seriously, it's like a James Bond villain idea. Lasers on sharks is totally the most efficient way to kill people!. I know, I keep asking, what's going to go between the layers? Will it be a moat? Will we get sharks? will it be some sort of sticky substance that'll freeze people in place? it's such an absurd idea. and so expensive! (something like a million dollars a mile). yeah, the fence is going to end somewhere, so they'll just go around. Or over. Or under (drug traffickers have so many tunnels already). Let's try dealing with the "demand" side of the "drug war," first. It's kind of funny that my mom is real big on drug legalization now; make it legal here, but tax it, think how much money we'll make! love my mom. she was very disappointed that prop 19 didn't pass in CA.

aw, that's okay! it's a very big deal to vote in the primary. and you've been understandably busy and are, you know, a few thousand miles away. I voted in the primary here, too, and the tea-crazy supporters of my congressperson's opponent were standing outside the voting location (a high school). These old white men went out of their way to say hello to a white male student (clearly a young student) walking to class and made sure to ignore me, and I was walking next to him. the student looked at me with a total wtf kind of look. i wished them a good day on my way out and they were flummoxed. what? democratic girls are supposed to be obnoxious! or off high somewhere, what is this politeness? Blech. I'm knocking on everything / turning around / spitting that my congressperson pulls it out. She's still up, so it looks good.
flippet
Nov. 3rd, 2010 10:47 pm (UTC)
I'm a little weird, but I'd spend a lifetime opposing a flag-burning amendment, damn it. People can burn the flag if they want.

Because even if burning the flag were illegal - it can't stop the sentiment behind it. And honestly? That's something you'd prefer to have out in the open, rather than underground.

People get scared, they get sucked in by the crazy.

That's what I've gleaned from this. I've looked at the numbers for who voted this time, as opposed to last time - and thought 'yep, so *those* are the easy-to-scare folks'.


And I &hearts you for quoting Sorkin.
echo_fish
Nov. 4th, 2010 04:09 am (UTC)
Exactly! I don't want to shut down the sentiment; let's have it out, in public, as a part of a protest. Plus, burning the flag is exactly what you're supposed to do when the flag is old and in tatters, so really you'd just have a spate of people saying they're just following the u.s. flag code. in public. with lot's of people cheering them on. Not that there's a mad rush of flag burning or anything, and republicans seem to have given up that issue (for now; who knows what's coming).

Yeah, I think, what, over a quarter of those voting are over 60 (or 65)? Definitely easier to scare (death panels! keep your government hands off my medicare!). Although, there are always exceptions. My ninety-year-old grandfather switched his registration from republican to democrat about five years ago because republicans were screwing up education (and everything else). He's such a democrat now, it's the funniest thing.


&hearts &hearts &hearts I want to live in Sorkin's world, where good debate performances crush opponents. and I &hearts you for using a tired (hungover? damn, now it's going to bug me) Josh icon.
dr_anitacoffee
Nov. 3rd, 2010 11:52 pm (UTC)
I wrote on a flag once - I admit it. But it was just after the Patriot Act was enacted and I was really, really angry at the way the country was going, so I pinned it to my door along with a poster of John Kerry fist-fighting Bush. But see, at least back then, the Democrats got angry about things, and fought for things. Because we were mad, and our rights were being trampled, and we were scared out of our minds thinking of what a brainless little monkey was doing to our Constitution.

Now, I don't even know how to feel about this election because I'm so mad at the Democrats for being such spineless, witless doormats to the tea party twits and their band of fools. They didn't just roll out the red carpet for a GOP takeover, they lined up and laid down so they could BE the carpet.

I'm hoping two years of John Boehner's day-glo face and his band of brainless tea baggers tea bagging the country will rile the Dems up enough that they remember who it is they represent and that we'd like very much to keep the GOP out of the White House in two years. Because now I know what the 2012 prophecy is about - and its name is Sarah Palin.
plausiblyremote
Nov. 4th, 2010 01:57 am (UTC)
THIS and THIS again. My problem is that, this time around, Wisconsin actually voted out the one man who voted against the Patriot Act. But, even more than that, I feel like that man (Feingold) totally half-assed it, with too little, too late totally ruling his campaign. The Democrats need to fucking care, and they just didn't care (enough) this time.

I live in Wisconsin, which made me sad. I am from Oklahoma, which made me humiliated to be alive. I'm not doom and gloom, but the whole thing was so full of the moronic. On all sides.

Thanks for the Sorkin, though. Those Democrats were always made of win.
echo_fish
Nov. 4th, 2010 05:26 am (UTC)
I'm so sorry about Feingold. What the hell happened? I mean, yes, Wisconsin has been known to vote for nutcases before ("no one ever looks like Joseph McCarthy; that's how they get in the door in the first place :)) but he's been senator for, what, 18 years? And his opponent thinks global warming is caused by sunspots. I don't understand. And I am really going to miss him on the judiciary committee. Damn. Hopefully Franken will stay.

I'm kind of pissed that so many young people stayed home. Damn it, guys, I stick up for us all the time. But I've been excited to vote since I was five, so I guess I can't understand people who can't be bothered to vote.

Aww, I'm sorry. The no-sharia law thing was...amusing, I'm sorry to say. But don't feel too bad! I live in AZ, where republicans swept all the top jobs (including attorney general, which the dems had held for almost twenty years). We have a new superintendent of schools who campaigned on "classroom discipline" and "reading by grade 3!" It's hard to maintain that 50th in education, let me tell you. The governor championed SB 1070, lied about beheadings in the desert (?), completely imploded in the one debate she'd actually sit for, and her numbers went up. The new attorney general was the former superintendent of schools, and the only thing he pushed for was getting rid of foreign studies (translated: Mexican studies) because they promote--fuck if I know, he apparently thought people learning about other cultures made them less American or something. See, he's smart because the more people learn, the less people buy his bullshit. Keep the populace stupid, that's the ticket. On the whole, I'm not completely doom and gloom, either, but wow are people old and mean and racist down here.

Yay, Sorkin. Remember the "Bartlett is my president" tshirts, etc.? I need a "Sorkin creates my political reality" t-shirt. I want dems to fight for their issues. I want dems to stand up, because that's what we do in civilized societies. I want dems to stand up for themselves; I know it's tiring (hell, I'm tired of dealing with the nutcases down here) but I want them to reach deep down and remember what matters to them. Obama got the "this is more important than reelection, I want to speak" part, now we need the "I will go door to door if I have to but I'm going to convince Americans that I'm right and I'm gonna get [healthcare, budget, financial regs, energy, education, social security, medicare . . . done]." If we think we're right, and we do, we should fight for it.
plausiblyremote
Nov. 4th, 2010 06:31 am (UTC)
Obama spoke on campus about a month ago and it was amazing - the central quad area was flooded, people (including myself) waited in line for hours to get in, and (the next day) my students described it as "having a fire lit in their hearts." It's been a long time since I felt a patriotic glow that didn't make me scared or uncomfortable, but seeing how invested everyone (including myself) that day was really, surprisingly, powerful. Which I guess is also what made yesterday so sad for me. I think a lot of college students did vote, but just note enough, and not enough of Democrats fullstop, at least here. Everyone in Madison was dismayed by the results, so I think it's a matter of different energies in different parts of the state. I thought they'd keep Russ, but the ads against him were smart, even if the candidate wasn't.

Oklahoma: voted against Sharia AND international law, made English its official language (no drivers licenses or informed consent for you folks!), cut education funding (like we could get any stupider anyway), and (I think) at least tried to allow people to opt-out of FEDERALLY MANDATED health care (or something like that). I quit hearing clearly after the first few items. The thing is, I don't think Oklahomans are just racists morons (though clearly that is an issue). The questions on the ballots really are confusing. My sister couldn't tell if, by not voting against Sharia law, she'd be voting for it, and she didn't know which international law they were talking about, and I didn't either! The questions are wordy, misleading, and often unexpected. And just so beyond common sense that it makes me have a Josh-style meltdown with a Toby-style verbal rampage. Obviously.

"I don't want him feeling better, I want him feeling mad. Is there anyone you'd rather have as a blood enemy less than Sam? That's how I want him." That's how I want all of us, Toby.

Total win on the political reality t-shirt - send me one when you start mass marketing. This whole thing does make me want to turn to my WW DVDS, which I guess is a silver lining.
echo_fish
Nov. 4th, 2010 07:17 am (UTC)
That sounds so amazing. I so hope I get to hear him speak in person. It's been a long time since I felt a patriotic glow that didn't make me scared or uncomfortable, but seeing how invested everyone (including myself) that day was really, surprisingly, powerful. That's what's always impressed me about him; when he'd speak during the campaign, he'd make me feel excited yet calm, somehow, thinking we could totally accomplish this difficult and amazing feat. I'm glad the college students voted; young people do vote (and did vote) but not as much as in 2008. I think it's also hard to fight when 65+ go to the polls more than they every have since 1994, and voted overwhelmingly republican. Young people didn't have "death panels" spurring them on, so it's understandable :/ It's just so frustrating sitting in a more liberal part of the state, looking around you and wondering why everyone went a little nuts. It's just so sad about Russ; he's been such a great voice for so long.

Oh, hey! AZ did the healthcare thing, too! Which is ridiculous, because the legislation allows states to opt out if they can come up with something better, but, of course, some states would rather just do nothing. We already had English as the official language (except for voting literature because it's federally mandated that that all literature be in English, Spanish, and Navajo (and other native languages); it's fun whipping that info out at parties :D). And, hey, don't think OK can compete in the race to the bottom in education with AZ; everyone here has already broken out the shovels (oh, and I just found out that the guy who sponsored SB 1070? is now the President of the Senate. So awesome). I don't want to think of any of my neighbors as racist morons, but so many of them seem to revel in it. They once defeated an anti-gay marriage bill, which was great, but then they turned around and voted for it the next time. Bizarre. I hate that the ballot measures are so confusing; most people tend to vote "no" here but sometimes that means yes...it's very frustrating. I think they enjoy confusing us. And just so beyond common sense that it makes me have a Josh-style meltdown with a Toby-style verbal rampage. This. I mean, it would be awesome to see, but it sucks that that's the reason for it.

"I don't want him feeling better, I want him feeling mad. Is there anyone you'd rather have as a blood enemy less than Sam? That's how I want him." That's how I want all of us, Toby. There is not one part of this comment that I don't love and agree with.

I've totally been wanting to break out my WW dvds lately! They were a comfort during GWB, they'll be a comfort again :)
dr_anitacoffee
Nov. 4th, 2010 11:46 pm (UTC)
I'm not a huge Obama fan, personally - I still wear my Hillary campaign shirts when I'm in a certain mood. During his address about the war (sorry, I mean the Iraq war - I forget we have to specify because WE'RE IN MORE THAN ONE), I was at thy gym on the treadmill, watching and yelling at the little treadmill TV. The people around me were so confused.

I just remember how Clinton stood up to the GOP when they tried to fuck us with the budget and called their bluff about shutting down the government and it's like, where's that kind of strong leadership? Obama needs to - pardon the phrase - man up and stand up to the Tea Baggers like Clinton stood up to Gingrich. Imagine if we had a strong leader who could also keep it in his pants...the things we could accomplish would be epic.
avidreadergirl
Nov. 4th, 2010 03:24 am (UTC)
Because now I know what the 2012 prophecy is about - and its name is Sarah Palin.

Oh. my. God.

You're right.

Dude!

Oh. My God.
echo_fish
Nov. 4th, 2010 07:25 am (UTC)
Oh, but see! I really don't care if you write on a flag, particularly in protest. My anger was more directed to the last president, who signed autographs on it. Pissed me off. And I was all over the upside-down flag/America in distress signal. Fucking "Patriot Act" and republicans and their Orwellian-speak. 1984 IS NOT A MANUAL FOR GOVERNANCE, DAMN IT. The flag code was sort of drilled into me as a kid (army brat); my dad was a strong dem and yet certain things we did have been appropriated by the right in a bizarre, nationalistic obsession and it pisses me off. Military housing had brackets to display flags outside; but suddenly after 9/11 only "real american"-republicans do that. My Limbaugh-loving aunt and uncle were so proud that they were so much better americans than my mom and I were because they had a flag pole and the american flag displayed around the clock. "But there's no light." "Well, no." "So when are you going to take it down? It's after sunset." "Why would we take it down?" My mom's signaling me just to let it go. They think they're so superior, but they get it wrong and it irritates the hell out of me. It's all about winning and turning the America I was raised to believe in into some kind of joke. ASSHOLES.

I think it's only when our backs are against the walls that we fight. The strongest I ever saw the dems in Congress fight was when the republicans wanted to privatize Social Security. Everyone then was at their fighting weight and on message and Bush and the republicans backed off. But now we won in 2008 and yet when people started ramping up the crazy and even when the dems had the most prolific legislative session in decades, so many of them ran and hid. My rep didn't; she was pro-healthcare from the beginning in a lean-R district, but no way should the dems have let the town halls go as they did (I went to one of them and wow was it scary. but these are also people who still cheered GWB, so it's a decidedly skewed sample). The dems have a lot of structural disadvantages in the media, but we're supposed to be the creative side; surely we could have come up with something. But not even having Andy Griffith :) tell seniors that their medicare was intact was enough.

The evil part of me is kind of looking forward to the constant investigations; I know that's awful, but Issa (who's going to head Oversight) is already making noises about investigations and birth certificates and I'm sure they're just frothing at the mouth for impeachment. I just want dems to fight for their way in seeing the world; it's not necessarily "progressive" but "liberal"-- we must hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately. I hope we can all fight together to get Obama a second term or at the very least fight to keep the GOP away from any additional levers of power.

Do you think she has a chance? Yes, she has fans, but I think she's the one who reunited dems into voting for Obama. She terrifies moderates (anecdotally, I think she's what pushed Jon Stewart into finally seeing McCain for what he actually is and even the people I know who like her (?boggles the mind) think she's not ready to be president). I'm not sure if the repub party will implode enough so that she gets the nomination. I mean, yeah, the evil part of me would enjoy the show, but the other part is terrified that she'd still get at least 40% of the vote anyway. I'm just afraid that the economy could be so awful that people will vote R regardless. Wow, okay, I'm back to being nervous. Please, Rs, please show the full extent of your craziness to remind people why they all don't like you in the first place.
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